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Disciplined Practice?
Posted by Robert:
On Sat, Dec 10, 2022 at 8:08pm, Robert Caldwell
Hi Holger,
I would like to ask a question and have it posted.
Perhaps someone would feel inspired to reply
and offer their opinion or experience.
Here is my quandary question:
After 55 years of spiritual “truth” searching,
I have reached a place where I feel good.
I feel okay.
I have good days and bad days, but through it all,
I no longer have much existential anxiety
about being alive, and so far,
regardless of what comes towards me,
I feel okay.
My questions for the most part have been answered,
even if the answer is “no” answer,
and that is satisfying enough.
All that being said,
there is one situation that reoccurs
and it inspires me to “wonder”.
That situation comes up when I encounter
speakers/writers/gurus/teachers/etc.
who have incorporated some aspect of “practice”
into their paradigm of existence
that is absolutely necessary for self-actualization,
and I do not feel led or inspired
to incorporate that practice into my daily life.
An example would be speakers who insist that
a Sattvic lifestyle as promoted by
Pantanjali’s Ashtanga Yoga
is critical for “realization”.
I hear their spiel and it sounds really convincing
and I feel “called out” and identified in my place of need.
Then, I consider Nisargadatta for example,
whom I admire greatly, and I can see that
he had no need for such a lifestyle.
Still, I am “pulled” by the feeling
that I have missed the boat so to speak
by ignoring the more disciplined,
renunciate types of lifestyle.
When I have engaged in them in the past,
including 3 years at a Zen training monastery,
they ultimately felt inauthentic for me.
I have no doubt that they served many other people well,
but I never felt anything other than phony.
I have always come “home”
to my place of rest in the world of paradox
where the gratitude and the grief,
the oneness and the duality, all walk hand in hand.
What “IS” (for me) is a mixture of Self and self,
neither one outweighing the other for very long.
Is this as good as it gets?
Am I dealing with some sort of insecurity,
or a slothful nature, or something else?
I am curious to hear other people’s experiences
and thoughts about the value of a disciplined practice.
Thank you.
[Robert]
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Created: December 10, 2022
Last modified: December 11, 2022
This post has 10 Comments
10 responses to “Disciplined Practice?”
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Thank you Robert for your great question.
As a draft reply from my side:Practices pertain to the body-mind and can be
useful or detrimental depending on our attitude.Our true nature is unaffected by body-mind-world.
Pleasure and pain are not in our control.
What do I really want?
“Whatever comes, goes.”When is enough enough?
“The belly of the mind is always hungry.”How can I measure my success?
What is the benchmark, my indicator;
when do I know that I can lay down or relax my tool, the mind.For me peace – the absence of the sense of lack/agitation – is an indicator.
A peace independent of circumstances, causeless peace, Presence.Not a permanent state, not an eternal orgasm;
there are times with flip-flopping, with adjustments.Sorry, if this sounds a little dry;
I don’t want to just rattle concepts.I entertained myself with Zen for several years;
willful, eager… trying to escape suffering, faulty thinking;
not knowing what was going on, but hungry for “enlightenment”,
the then/zen assumed magic pill for all problems.There is a time for practice, when there is love?
Ramesh Balsekar has a good Satsang, titled “Misconceptions“.
Thank you Robert!
No claim or fame from my side…
Beginner’s mind?Gratitude.
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sweet, yes, all of this sounds familiar, like “home”….no departure, no arriving, always at the station, the trains come and go, at times engulfed by smoke which passes, and then a smile through a window, directed towards me from an unknown passenger as the train departs, wait, was that “me” smiling?
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Robert
I am 75, at this for a long time, and my experience is similar to yours, though the details vary.
No eternal orgasm, as Holger says, no fireworks. Just a natural acceptance of what the Universe presents.
Nisargadatta is currently at the top of my list (and I believe Ramesh Balsekar taught along the same lines.)
For ‘me’, there is still a feeling of a lingering ‘me’ that has to play itself out. That residue is maybe what leaves the feeling of ‘maybe there is something more?’
Anyway, my best answer is ‘I’ don’t know.
Peace. Peace. Peace.-
Yes, there is always “something more” phenomenally; neverendingly.
But who cares (in a loving way)?
From Mooji I once heard “excitement is a scam of the mind”,
which stuck with me and turned out to be very helpful
in discerning on whose behalf thoughts and feelings arise.“And then you accept the unhappiness.
And the weird thing with unhappiness is
when you completely accept the unhappiness,
it cannot survive very long. (chuckles)”-
Thanks, Holger; this reminds me of a Leonard Cohen quote- “Roshi said the older you get, the lonelier you become, and the deeper the love you need. Which means that this hero that you’re trying to maintain as the central figure in the drama of your life, this hero is not enjoying the life of a hero…this hero is suffering defeat after defeat. And they’re not heroic defeats; they’re ignoble defeats. Finally, one day you say. “Let that die”…and from there, you just live your life.”
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Thanks, Ron, this feels good, an affirmation of sorts, of residual Robert. I imagine the constant checking and wondering and doubting are good indicators, really….indicators that i am still engaged and alive in the awareness of not knowing. I read Chogyam Trungpa say “It is much easier to appear Holy than to be sane”.
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Robert, I’m living a similar question right now. It comes to mind that when we’re finished seeking our true nature we begin serving our true nature.
At some point I shift from seeking Truth, love, understanding and beauty to serving Truth, love, understanding and beauty.
love,
chris
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Thanks, Chris. Yes, there is sense in what you say here. We are at some point (many of us) so absorbed in the search for Truth we are unable to see that our “room” is so full that there is no way anything “other” could enter. One day we start to see that after all that searching, we know nothing; some room is made at the Inn, and miraculously the Guest arrives. What is there left to do but offer tea and cookies?
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Hi Robert,
In your message, you state that you have reached a place where you feel OK and that you no longer have existential anxiety. You share that you are satisfied.
Later on you state that you feel that you may have missed the boat.
It appears as if there is something going on here since the satisfaction is not full. You ask if you are dealing with some sort of insecurity or sloth. Only you can tell. You can take a look.
You then ask our thoughts about the value of a disciplined practice. From my perspective, a disciplined practice is not essential. Yet, you may find yourself drawn to a disciplined practice. If you are, I would ask myself on whose behalf am I drawn to practice? Am I trying to improve my spiritual (illusory) self? If so, then I would not pursue this direction.
Having said that, I must confess that I did Zazen for many decades. One could say it is a very disciplined practice. In my case, I did Zazen out of a deep passion which I cannot explain and not out of any personal interest.
Much love,
Magdi-
Thanks, Magdi
Yes, everything you say I can relate to; One day it is this way, the next day it is that way. That aspect worried me much more in the past than at present, although it still comes up (as this post testifies). I am leaning towards thinking this is a pretty good place to be actually, this “not-knowing”, and balancing the two aspects out (Self and self) (or however we choose to misrepresent it with these impotent words) 🙂
Perhaps a pertinent quote here from Hui Neng (6th Zen Patriarch)
“Deluded people are no different from awakened ones (Buddhas), delusion is no different from awakening. With one confused thought, you are deluded; with the next thought you see the truth, that’s awakening. With one thought you cling to something, that’s delusion; with the next thought you leave it behind, that’s awakening”. love.
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